Pip's guardian, Jaggers, is also Miss Havisham's lawyer. He is acquainted with Herbert's father, Matthew Pocket, because Matthew is Miss Havisham's cousin, though the two are not on good terms. Herbert explains that Miss Havisham was to be married to a fine gentleman who swindled some money from her, and then left her at the altar. The man apparently conspired with Miss Havisham's half-brother, Arthur, who was in debt and did not like Miss Havisham. As to Estella, she has always been there, adopted years ago by Miss Havisham. Herbert does not like Estella, and he feels that she is hard, proud, and brought up to wreak revenge on all men for Miss Havisham. Pip explains his expectations briefly and mentions that there are to be no inquiries about who the benefactor is. Both young men suspect it is Miss Havisham. Herbert currently works in a counting-house, but is an aspiring "capitalist" who hopes to insure merchant ships and make his fortune someday. Pip doubts he will ever achieve this.
The following Monday the two proceed to Hammersmith where Pip meets Matthew Pocket and the rest of the family. The many Pocket children are "tumbling up," growing up without much supervision or interest from Mrs. Pocket or her nurses. Mrs. Pocket greets Pip, is oblivious to everything around her, and resumes reading her book. Pip then meets the perplexed and confused Mr. Pocket, a man not in charge of anything going on in his household, least of all, his wife.
